“I just take on the role and enjoy it”: Malcolm McDowell on working with Kubrick and filming Caligula

- Let's talk about your new project - the picture "Big Freak", released on online services on July 31st. I read a little about it, and it can be conveyed as the collision of the waters of the Thames with the waters of the Lake of the Ozark - here you have money laundering and the like. Events, if I'm not mistaken, are developing in the Appalachians. Did I convey the essence correctly?

- I would not say better. Something like that. This is all the merit of Vinnie Jones. It was he who called me and asked if I wanted to star in a film. He said, “Look, Mel, this is a chance for me to play the good guy. Finally, I can not play the villain. " “Okay, Vinnie,” I say. - I agree". He really played a positive character - and played well.

- I love that as a more mature age you approached the question of choosing roles with indifference in the spirit of Michael Caine. Part of me always strives to do only what I do best, but another part thinks: “I am earning my living! So I will take risks and gain experience! " I noticed that you too ...

- Quite right. So far, I have been very lucky - knock on wood - I can boast of a long career. In the beginning, you are at the peak of popularity, you play in highly social films, young people look up to you. Now it certainly sounds a little funny. But, you know, in terms of all this rebellion and protests, I just played what was written in the script. I have nothing to do with the protests, say, on the streets of Paris in 1968. I didn’t throw Molotov cocktails.

At first you play such characters, but over the years your life changes, and with it the roles change. The point is to just go with the flow and enjoy it.

I don't care about problems like "Oh my god, my name on the poster is below the title of the movie!" or similar nonsense. I just take on the role and enjoy it. This is what I have been doing or trying to do all these years. That's all. 

- But let's get back to Caligula for a while. It's amazing to see such venerable actors as you and, say, Helen Mirren in a movie like this. Did the producers really add real pornography to the picture during the final editing stage?

- Exactly. Let's just say there was nothing like this in the script. The first draft was written by Gore Vidal. Once he called me and invited me to lunch. When I asked where we would meet, he replied, “In a place called the Penthouse Club. "Is it like a Playboy club?" - I asked in surprise. “Yes, only this is Penthouse,” he replied. “Okay,” I agreed.

• © Still from the movie "Caligula" (1979)

When I arrived there, it turned out that this place is located in a very dark basement. There Gor Vidal meets me and says: "I want you to play Caligula in our new film." We started discussing the details, and I ask: "Who finances this whole thing?" "Bob Guccione," came the answer. “Yeah,” I say. - now it is clear why we are in the "Penthouse" club. And he told me: "Malcolm, consider that Bob Guccione is one of the Warner brothers."  

This is an accurate quote from Horus Vidal. I think he meant that he would simply give money and leave us to ourselves, but in reality it turned out quite differently. Moreover, Gor Vidal left the project somewhere in the middle of the process, as he was extremely unhappy with what was happening. I think he was even banned from appearing on the set.

I'll tell you honestly, this picture still raises very unpleasant feelings in me - it was a real betrayal.

By the way, the current “forced break” prompted me to make a kind of show, a documentary, equipped with playing on the stage of those absolutely incredible things that happened in 1976 on the set of the film in Rome ...

- What a great idea!

- Filming with Helen Mirren, John Gielgud and Peter O'Toole. I can tell you that something completely unimaginable was going on there. The real Sodom and Gomorrah. Almost. For some reason, Peter O'Toole then became addicted to marijuana, grinned joints literally without stopping and was always incredibly stoned.

Once I was told: “Go to Peter's dressing room and talk to him in dialogues. We'll be filming night scenes and you have a couple of hours. " This hour or two became all ten. By four in the morning we got to the set, and I literally had to direct him to where he should stand.

We weren't on the site that day. We were going to have a scene about the sexual fantasies of Tiberius, played by Peter. The scenery around depicted the grotto of Tiberius on the island of Capri, and there was a complete madness. By the time we were on the site, what was happening there, real debauchery reigned around. As a result, Peter began to say his remark: “Rome was just an ordinary city! .. My mother is a woman, what are they doing there? Are they midgets? Oh Gods!". “Peter, we're shooting - the camera is working,” I pulled him back. “Oh, yes. Rome was just an ordinary city! What's that, a trapeze ?! Seriously?!". That's how we lived.

“If O'Toole was uncomfortable, how was Gilgud?

“He just loved it. I was then living in a studio apartment, and one day he came to me and began: “Malcolm, I don’t know if you have such an opportunity, but my daily subsistence payments are very meager, and I heard you have a rather big villa. Will you be able to give me a room there? " “John, are you kidding me? I began. - Take yourself at least a whole suite, but what is there - the whole wing! Live, of course! "

And it was incomparable - for two weeks at lunchtime, John Gielgud played beautiful songs. When the picture was already on the screens, I somehow ran into him on Third Avenue in New York. Just like that - quite by accident, just on the street.

- Incredible!

- And he was there on the set of the comedy "Arthur" with Dudley Moore. “Malcolm,” he tells me. "Have you seen the movie yet?" “No,” I say. - but I'm going to. " - "And I've looked three times, but paid (for tickets. - RT ) only two!" And I told him: "Listen, if you told them who you are, I'm sure you wouldn't have to pay at all."

• © Still from the movie "A Clockwork Orange" (1971)

- Let's move on to another genius, obviously with a more difficult character. I've read enough about Kubrick, but most of all I like what a friend of mine told me. When he saw Eyes Wide Shut, I asked him how it was, and he replied, "Hedonism through the eyes of a Victorian agoraphobic man."

A brilliant director, and for me his main masterpiece is A Clockwork Orange. At the first viewing, I was simply speechless. If I'm not mistaken, he saw you in the film "If ..." by Lindsay (Anderson - RT ) and decided that you are an actor of the role he needs.

- Right. His wife, now widow Christian Kubrick, told me that he had been looking for a long time. They had a whole movie projector with a mechanic in their house and when they were sent a copy of the film "If ...", according to her, after I first appeared in the frame, Kubrick called the mechanic on the intercom and said: " and start at the beginning of the scene. " And so four times in a row. Then he turned to his wife and said: "We found our Alex!"

It seems to me (from other directors. - RT ) that he differs in that he shot masterpieces, no matter what genre he took. Whether it's romantic comedies, anti-war films, or whatever else comes to your mind.

If you give him a great idea, like what Peter Sellers did to the Nazi salute in Doctor Strangelove when he pulled his hand, Kubrick would build a whole scene around it.

So it was when I began humming a song from "Singing in the Rain", and he picked up the idea and built it into the scene, into the plot of the picture. You can remember another one - when at the end of the film the minister feeds me in the hospital, I chew the whole thing and suddenly I suddenly open my mouth. While the poor fellow was delivering his closing monologue, I saw out of the corner of my eye that Stanley was becoming unbearably bored. I realized that he was about to give up this monologue, and I thought: if I can speed up this matter, say, swallow everything faster, then he will be left in the picture.

And Stanley really liked the idea. The entire stage was built around this. You may not remember what the minister is saying, but remember this moment perfectly.

- I would also like to discuss your dialogue with David Warner in the movie "Travel in a Time Machine", when he realizes that he will always be a killer, that what he has done will always haunt him, and he wants to be sent to another world, into a time trap. Oh, this understanding look that he throws at you! You had great energy in that movie.

- Still would! In 1965, we served together at the Royal Shakespeare Theater, he was then a big star and played Hamlet. Three hundred screaming girls (constantly - RT ) were waiting for him at the service entrance. The popularity of his Hamlet was comparable to that of The Beatles. A very atypical and amazing actor, totally underrated in my opinion.

It is a pleasure to look at him. We have developed a good friendship. I really liked him, although he was a strange person, he never relaxed and was always slightly tense. But because of this, he could be teased, and he began to laugh. We had a great time.

So when it turned out that he would play the role of Jack the Ripper, I was incredibly happy. There was a lot of deep sympathy between our characters, thanks to our time in the theater and a lot of mutual respect.

- I literally see that young man, recognized as an excellent actor, who works for a daily allowance in an interesting project in the San Francisco Bay area and meets the beautiful Mary Steenburgen. This was probably one of those moments when you realize: "God, my life is going great."

- Yes. This is exactly how it was. Awesome time. I must say that San Francisco is one of my favorite cities. There we fell in love. It was a great moment. She was dating a guy then, and I was married (to Margot Bennett - RT ), but I don't want to go into details. We have practically dispersed. In general, it was not easy. But as for Mary, she played incredibly in that film. She is a terrific actress and is still doing well, appearing endlessly in new projects. You never know where you will see her.

- I read somewhere that after some operation all Mary's thoughts turned into music. Have you heard of this?

- This is all true. Moreover, the operation was not even serious. She was put under anesthesia to remove something from her arm. Something like a polyp - nothing serious. When she came to, she literally thought only in music.

And now Mary writes songs, and very successfully. She was even nominated for some kind of award - I don't remember if it was an Oscar or something else. But I can say for sure that she writes stunning songs - I've heard.

See RTD for the full interview.