Anda Costa-Gavras (Athens, 1933) busy with time. Confinement has him blocked in the present, like everyone else, but pending the past and restless for the future. He says he visits, now that he is stranded at home, a good part of his files, his films, his memories ... "I get rid of everything that lived through his time of need, charm, and even passion, but that now, with over time, they have lost their appeal, "he says. His latest movie 'Behaving like adults'(2019) recounted the most dizzying and difficult days in Greece: the 2015 crisis in which the southern European country was about to stay out of, indeed, Europe. Incidentally, the film reflected neither more nor less on what occupies and worries it most now: the time, the time of, precisely, Europe, about its past, its present and its future. Now, with the body coronavirus present and with the doubts of the European Commission, the same questions arise again.
Question. How do you think the crisis described in your last film is similar to the crisis that is causing the pandemic in Europe?
Answer. At the moment, they are different. But as soon as the health emergency that I hope is soon disappears, we will be facing a gigantic debt problem. And there will be two twin crises. Then we will be facing an economic and human crisis. And it is then that European cohesion and solidarity will be absolutely necessary. So every member of the European Union showed total disinterest in the struggling Greek people. And it seems that this is being repeated now in the face of a deep crisis with unknown consequences that is hitting the poorest and that runs the risk of destroying the achievements of our society. European ministers meet to discuss ... what? Are they talking about protecting the poorest? No! They only talk about money and even here they are unable to agree. The rich want to protect the rich privileges. It strikes me that the Netherlands give moral lessons to the countries of the South and insult them by calling them cicadas when it is the Dutch who work the least in all of Europe.
Q. Do you think that Europe now has the possibility of redeeming itself after the austerity policy with which Greece and southern Europe were punished?
A. Yes, it would be a good time for Europe to get Greece out of debt prison. Furthermore, the European powers should stop collaborating and supporting incompetent and dishonest Greek politicians who use the aid they receive to make themselves fat for their businesses. Even after what they did in 2015, some apologies were heard later. Pierre Moscovici [was European Commissioner for Economic Affairs] and Jean-Claude Juncker [was president of the European Commission] spoke of lack of democracy and Jeroen Dijsselbloem [was president of the Eurogroup] acknowledged that too much was demanded of Greece. But the excuses were carried away by the wind. It sounded more like the criminal's satisfaction and humiliation with a smile for the victim. Actions are needed and those have not come.
Q. What do you think governments like Portugal or Greece have done well, the first on the left and the second on the right, much better off in the health crisis than the rest of Europe?
R. It is clear that the measures to be adopted should not obey an ideological or electoral or even economic logic, but a scientific one. But it is still too early to judge anything. They probably benefited from decisions made previously in other countries. And then perhaps I will tell you that they are disciplined people and that, in general, the elderly live with families and not in private residences.
We are experiencing, despite extraordinary technical and intellectual progress, a dizzying return of all extremisms. And more specifically to neoliberalism
Costa-GavrasQ. What has surprised and hurt you most of everything that is happening?
A. What does not surprise me, it hurts and it is humiliating to see once again that it is the population of modest incomes that pays the highest price and that it is they who will continue to suffer after the economic crisis that will come.
Q. You have already seen Europe in various complicated situations before. Do you think this is the worst moment in Europe since the Second World War?
A. The horror of World War II is insurmountable. Then he dreamed of a better world. And it was like that for a very short time. Fanaticism and dogmatism quickly won. We are currently experiencing, despite extraordinary technical and intellectual progress, a dizzying return of all extremisms. And more specifically to neoliberalism.
Q. Do you fear a resurgence of populisms and extreme right-wing nationalisms?
A. I hope that this tragedy and the almost globally shared experience of a new mortal danger will lead to a new reflection on the future and survival of human society. The extreme right has triumphed several times in many parts of the world and we have seen and continue to see the appalling results. We see and even live the rapacity, the greed of national and world neoliberalism.
Q. Will what we are experiencing cause us to reconsider the value of the public?
R. This pandemic demonstrates more than any ideology or discourse the necessity and inescapable importance of public goods: hospitals, research, education ... That is, the value of everything that should not be subject to the tyranny of exploitation and the benefit. What would have happened to Covid-19 patients if they had to pay for their hospital care in a private system?
Culture frees us from our fears and makes us better. That is why culture should be given the same consideration, if not more, than all other needs of society.
Costa-GavrasQ. We go back to the beginning, what role does Europe have now?
R. I think that, in the end, Europe will impose its logic and its experience. Europe has been a fundamental center for the transformation of humanity since ancient times. Here democracy was invented; culture, arts and justice were promoted here. This did not prevent him from waging wars, committing massacres, succumbing to racism, causing extermination and colonizing other peoples. All this ended up leading Europeans to a certain wisdom that, despite the contradictions, has managed to unite us, albeit badly. But, above all, Europe means defending a project: democracy against autarchies and against popular democracies. This is Europe's main role: to set an example in a world that is falling apart.
Q. In Spain, the support that culture has to receive is discussed and the Spanish Minister of Culture himself speaks of culture as a good to deal with when other needs have been met. What would you answer to the Spanish minister?
A. All myopic or conservative governments, when they want to save money, start by cutting the cultural budget. I think that the things of the spirit, the culture, even more in times of crisis, help to reflect, to unite people. Culture frees us from our fears and makes us better. That is why culture should be given the same consideration, if not more, than all other needs of society.
Q. How do you imagine the future after the crisis?
R. With melancholy. I dream with enthusiasm of a future in which we will be able to transcend our differences and face resolutely the problems of mother earth and those of the most disadvantaged humans.
According to the criteria of The Trust Project
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