Israeli historian Ilan Pappe: Trump's peace plan is based on Zionist myths

Interviewed by Mohammed Suleiman

Through a progressive and critical view of the idea of ​​Israel and Zionism, Israeli historian and academic Ilan Pappe (65 years) devoted much of his effort and thought to undermining Israeli narratives, and went further than his colleagues of "new historians" - those who appeared especially in the nineties of the last century - against Zionism and defending rights Palestinian conflict.

In his books such as "Ten Myths about Israel," "Ethnic Cleansing in Palestine," "The Idea of ​​Israel, History of Power and Knowledge," and many of his articles, he exposed the falsehoods of Israel and the policy of ethnic cleansing and racism inherent in the Zionist project.

In 2007, the academic boycott, harassment and various threats to leave Haifa University - where he was studying in the Department of Middle East History - led to the University of Exeter.

Babieh describes himself as an "anti-Zionist Israeli," and that "his Jewishness is a historical cultural identity," and believes that the Zionist project is only a colonial settlement movement supported by the West, and the Palestinians must unite to confront it.

In this dialogue, Babieh talks about the American peace plan known as the "Deal of the Century" and its objectives and mechanisms, and its connection to the Zionist project and the agenda of the administration of US President Donald Trump and the Israeli right and the planned arrangements in the region.

As a historian, how can you describe the American peace plan known as the "Deal of the Century" with a historical view of the scene: timing, participating countries, people and alliances, and how important is this plan in the international political arena?
US President Donald Trump's plan for Middle East peace is part of an Israeli-American attempt to remove Palestine as a political problem. The subject of American recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and the transfer of the embassy to Tel Aviv could be linked to the same plan.

The move was aimed at erasing the Palestinian identity of the city of Jerusalem. The Bahrain workshop (known as the Bahrain Economic Peace Conference) was held to recruit Arab public support for the idea that "the Palestine problem is only economic" and not political.

The exclusion of the PLO by the United States, and the cessation of UNRWA funding as part of the same move,

Can the benefits of this plan be dismantled and how will it be reflected on Israel, the Arab states and the United States ?
On the Israeli side, to contribute to passing the national law to abolish the identity of the Palestinian "minority" in Israel, and I think this is connected with the closure of the Israeli archives by the Israeli authorities on the Nakba, in continuation of the Nakba Law, which physically punishes Palestinians living in Israel if they describe the events of 1948 As a catastrophe in any public institution.

In short, what is going on is the continuation of the 1948 Nakba - the struggle for the liquidation of Palestinian identity - but this time with the tools of the 21st century.

Unlike the Oslo Accords adopted by the PLO, today we find that the Palestinian Authority is resisting the peace plan by all means. What changed from Oslo to Manama? And why do you think the Palestinians reject this initiative? We also saw popular movements rejecting the Manama conference, although US President George W. Bush's adviser Jared Kouchner insists that President Trump has not given up on the Palestinians. The plan offers many solutions to the Palestinians' daily problems. What is the reason?
The support of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) for Oslo has many reasons. Firstly, there are those who believe that Oslo will bring an independent Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip as a stage for complete liberation in the future. Some of the West Bank and Gaza said that the priority is to end the occupation. They saw that a small state is better than nothing.

Despite the failure of Oslo, it seems to me that those who control the Palestinian Authority still believe in a two-state solution for the same reasons that led the PLO to support Oslo. Of course, the importance of feeling power or being able to govern, even if it is sometimes a judgmental one, can not be ignored. It produces a motivation to preserve it, perhaps because you believe that by bringing people's interests, or perhaps because it brings you personal benefit and perhaps both.

This American peace plan clearly sees that the existence of the Palestinian Authority is an obstacle in itself, and wants the West Bank and Gaza Strip to take over a group of businessmen who run things as an economic and not a political project. Therefore, the PA is fighting for its survival. Trump and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

Oslo has displaced the Palestinians inside the Green Line from the official Palestinian issue, and they considered Oslo to be an internal Israeli affair. How do you see the fate of the Palestinians inside the Green Line after the American peace plan?
The Trump plan hammers the final nail into the coffin of the two-state solution and opens the door to the Palestinian liberation movement wherever it is to redefine the concept of freedom from occupation. If this debate is reopened, the Palestinians within the Green Line will have an important role to play in this definition.

It is no coincidence that initiatives to establish a single state with the support of Jewish citizens within the Green Line, and at all stages of Palestinian history, have been highlighting certain groups to become more active in defining the road and defining the future. Perhaps it is time for the Palestinians to be the vanguard.

I have always said that the Zionist-Evangelical alliance was able to overcome religious differences and meet one interest. How do you see the equation now under this plan? How do you explain the religious aspect of this joint process?
Zionism was fundamentally an evangelical idea before it was a Zionist project. These Christians believed and believed today that the return of the Jews to Palestine meant the coming of Jesus Christ again, the resurrection of the dead and the end of time. This is an anti-Jewish approach.

Since 1992, Netanyahu has ignored the anti-Semitic aspect of these groups and as Israel's ambassador to the United Nations led Israel into an alliance with these Christian groups. These groups now form the basis of Trump and Netanyahu's power in the United States, a religious initiative that shows unlimited support for Israel , And that's what interests them.

Through what has been launched or leaked so far, what does the American peace plan differ from all the initiatives and theses?
First of all, this initiative does not weigh and ignore international law, at least in previous initiatives that spoke of the Palestinian right to self-definition and in a state of their own, even if there was no intention of allowing it fully or adequately. Second, all previous initiatives were based on a political solution as the only way to end the conflict.

This initiative is similar to the United Nations partition resolution of 1947 with one thing: the Palestinians oppose the proposal, but they continue to speak as if this initiative does not seem to affect their lives and their future, and is therefore very dangerous. To the Nakba, and I hope that the Palestinians will be careful to prevent the coming catastrophe.

Given what is happening in the region at present, is there a relationship between the US peace plan and reducing tension in the region between the United States and Iran?
Tension between the United States and Iran is linked to an American attempt to build a hub of Arab regimes ready to remove the Palestinian cause from the regional agenda in return for American support.

Americans believe that Iran is one of the main obstacles, because Tehran puts the Palestinian issue at the center of its foreign policy, and it supports the Palestinian struggle in the Gaza Strip against the blockade, with the liberation of Palestine.

Thus, the American vision is to overthrow the regime in Iran, remove the Palestinians and the Palestinian cause from the agenda, and an Arab world that continues to supply the United States with oil, continues to buy arms from it, and accepts the Greater Israel without discussion.

The plan summarizes the Palestinian issue in the Palestinians in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Does ignoring the refugee issue mean the liquidation of the right of return?
It is no surprise that the refugee issue is ignored. Indeed, even previous initiatives ignored the refugees, and it was clear that the refugee issue within the two-state solution could not be resolved on the basis of the right of return.

The following question may concern you in particular. What is the fate of the idea of ​​a one-state solution under these alliances and the proposed American peace plan? Are these efforts a consolidation of the idea of ​​a two-state solution, or do they effectively end any chance of establishing a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders?
I will summarize the idea once again. The plan of the two-state solution is to be completely eliminated. The alternative solution is that there is no need to invent a wheel, because the alternative idea is here, a democratic state for all those who live in historic Palestine.

Since there will not be a peace process in the Trump period, this time is to build support from the bottom of the idea of ​​a single state by convincing the current Palestinian leadership wherever they are, in the hope that they will unite on this idea and if necessary create a new movement to spread the idea. Official and consensual of the current Palestinian leadership and all those who are added to it by the young generation that has been working for many years in order to involve it in making decisions that affect all Palestinians wherever they are.

I am convinced that this position will lead to increased support all over the world and even within the Jewish community in Israel towards the idea of ​​a one-state solution. Last month, we launched such an initiative in Haifa and we are working with our friends at home and abroad to expand the initiative for a new debate on One state and to build a popular movement to spread the idea (the initiative is called "One State Democratic Initiative").

What are the possibilities and limits of Palestinian rejection and resistance to the American peace plan?
Failure to participate in the initiative is the first step. The second step is to unify the situation. Without a Palestinian unity, efforts will continue to wipe out Palestine. Of course, the concept of "steadfastness" in all its aspects includes the struggle against occupation, discrimination and siege.

I think also that the boycott campaign is very important because it shows the fact that civil society, including within the United States, does not accept the Trump initiative and demands that pressure be put on Israel to end the occupation, siege and exclusion inside Israel, This effort will defeat this serious initiative.

In a book entitled "Ten Myths About Israel," Israel followed a series of "ethnic cleansing in Palestine," a title for your most famous books. How can the US peace plan be described for the Zionist project?
In fact, this initiative is based on Zionist myths that deny the existence of the Palestinians as an indigenous people and the fact that the Zionist movement is a settler colonial movement, and in 1948 the way to turn these myths into reality was through ethnic cleansing.

This is done through conferences in Bahrain that deny the existence of Palestinians, close the Nakba archives and damage Palestinian cultural figures and institutions, as well as the continuation of the policy of daily ethnic cleansing in the Negev, Galilee and West Bank and the genocidal policy in the Gaza Strip.

Therefore, we must know the essence of the ideology that allows such acts, and make it clear that for Jews living in Israel and around the world to establish a state for all its citizens and not a racist Jewish state, only such a state will guarantee justice and peace for all.