"We must give women a chance in the scientific community"

Fabienne Casoli, new president of the Paris-PSL Observatory, commits to more women in science

Fabienne Casoli, astronomer and president of the Paris-PSL Observatory. - Paris-PSL Observatory

The Paris Observatory, one of the leading figures in French astronomy, changes direction and now has a woman at its head: Fabienne Casoli.
It is the first time that a woman has held this position since the institution was created by Louis XIV in 1667.
20 Minutes went to meet him to talk about science. And women in science.

A woman among the leaders of French astronomy. Astronomer and astrophysicist Fabienne Casoli today becomes the first woman to hold the position of president of the Paris-PSL Observatory. She takes the head of an institution over 350 years old, spread over three sites: Paris, Meudon (Hauts-de-Seine) and Nançay (Cher).

Normalienne, aggregated in physics, doctor of astrophysics… A brilliant career for those who were interested in astronomy almost by chance. While officially scheduled to take office this Friday, 20 Minutes met with her to discuss her commitments to more women in science.

What will be your missions as president of the Paris Observatory?

Being president means directing the Observatory and its staff. We are responsible for the budget, the premises, all the activities that take place there. It also means providing the necessary resources for research, training, the dissemination of knowledge and, finally, presenting these results to the public. We make a lot of representations outside, at the Ministry of Higher Education for example, but also internationally to promote the Observatory.

Which brand do you want to print at the head of the Paris Observatory?

First, I want to strengthen research, by highlighting specific areas, such as exoplanets [the planets around other stars] or the search for traces of life, for example. This is an area in which we are quite strong. I would also like to develop research around black holes. We are just starting to detect them and understand how they work, it has become a new astronomy.

I also want to strengthen training for all audiences, teachers at school, college or university. We have class sponsorship activities and I would like to target priority education areas. One of the main challenges of my mandate is to open the Observatory to the public again: we will also start by trying to open part of the Observatory during the Fête de la Science, in October.

You are the first woman to hold this position since its creation in 1667. Is it important to you?

Apparently, this is important! In the congratulatory messages I received, at least two-thirds noted this. For me, it was not an event as such. At the time of the creation of the Observatory, Louis XIV was not going to appoint a director! During all these years, only two women were candidates for this election: it is difficult to elect one under these conditions.

Are you tired of being told about your gender?

Not yet (laughs). For the moment, that makes me laugh rather. As much as to do, as much to talk about.

You were deputy scientific director of the National Institute of Sciences of the Universe at the CNRS, then director of the Space Astrophysics Institute in Orsay. Now president of the Paris Observatory. Have you ever felt hampered by being a woman?

For many years, I haven't had so many problems evolving in a male environment. I did not ask myself any questions. Now, thinking about it, I realize that in some cases, I have censored myself, I did not dare to run for positions of responsibility ... I had a somewhat recent awareness, saying to myself: “I can also be president, instead of being vice-president. I can also be a director, instead of being an assistant. ”

You are involved in several associations that campaign for more women in science. When did you say to yourself: "we have to change things"?

There was a moment that struck me, when the big organizations got involved in these issues. There was an experiment two or three years ago by NASA: it tried to anonymize requests for observation on the Hubble space telescope.

These requests are possible twice a year, and each astronomer has roughly a one in 10 chance of succeeding. So it's very very competitive. NASA found that when women requested observation for their team, they were 25% less likely to be successful than when it was a man who carried the proposal. The requests were then made anonymous. In this case, experience shows that women do a little better than men. It's concrete, it's a real experience.

A gender inequality which perhaps promotes the lack of diversity in research. Today, France has only 28% of female researchers. How do you explain it?

In astronomy, women researchers represented more than 30% of the workforce thirty years ago. Now, we are rather below 25%. This is linked to the fact that it is more and more difficult to have a permanent research position, more and more late. We know that it penalizes women enormously to have a job at 35-36 years, they give up before. It is also linked to the fact that astronomy has become closer to physics and mathematics, fields which attract women less.

At what point in the process should we intervene to push women into science? At school or in the workplace?

It's all the time, starting with school. The critical period is college. Perhaps this is also where there is the greatest separation between boys and girls. This is the moment when you start to do a little science and the girls start to say to themselves “is it for me? "While they have better results. Math and physics lose talent, it's a shame for these disciplines. Give them a chance!

What advice would you give to a young girl who wants to get into astronomy, but who may not dare?

For young people who are in middle school, in high school, who want to go towards scientific subjects, what other advice than to say to them "Dare! "? You are capable, you can, you have all the qualities for that. They have to realize that there are a lot of professions in the sciences: we think of a researcher or an astronomer, but they can also be engineers.

And you, when did you say to yourself "I'm going to become an astronomer"?

I was studying physics. It was good but it seemed a bit finished as a science. This is completely false, but it is the impression I had. I met astronomers who seemed to be doing fabulous things and I said to myself "that's what I want to do".

It was not a vocation at all. I was not an amateur astronomer, I did not make my small telescope, I did not observe the sky. Even now, I like to watch it, but my favorite thing is to understand how everything works. Rather, that is what motivates me.

What great discoveries can we expect in astronomy in the next thirty years?

By 2030, we will receive samples from the planet Mars, which we will be able to analyze in detail. You have to look for traces of past life. It will be a big step forward if we can do it, because it is very difficult.
There are going to be a lot of things around black holes: we will see quantities, we will understand everything. These are fascinating objects that put our physique at fault. We have long had a big problem of compatibility between the two main theories, general relativity and quantum mechanics. Thanks to black holes, maybe we will succeed one day in finding a unified theory of physics. But on that, I would not risk setting a date.

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