The Order on Concealment of Crimes: a historian of the special services on the work of Auschwitz and its victims

- Scientists still have not agreed on how many people were killed at Auschwitz. Numbers from one to four or more million dead are called. Where does this scatter come from?

- In 1943, a special order to conceal crimes was signed with Himmler. Places of mass executions were carefully masked, trees were planted in their place, photographs were taken, and it was forbidden to shoot public executions. The Nazis, the perpetrators of these crimes, employees and the leaders of concentration camps, of course, were interested in lowering the number of victims.

You need to know the approximate methodology by which the number of victims in Auschwitz was determined. On the territory of Auschwitz, the Nazis blew up the warehouses in which clothes were stored and those things that were seized from the victims. From, in my opinion, 29 warehouses were blown up in 36. 800 thousand sets of women's clothing and 350 thousand men's were found in the remaining ones. This was the first figure from which the Extraordinary State Commission for the Investigation of the Crimes of Nazi Criminals and their accomplices repelled.

We can also roughly calculate the performance of crematoria. Auschwitz was founded by a decree of Himmler on April 27, 1940. And somewhere in the summer the first prisoners from the occupied countries of Europe began to arrive there. The capacity of crematoria was designed to burn 270 thousand corpses per month. About ten trains a day arrived, each with 40-50 wagons.

“And all this follows from the testimony?”

- Yes, this is the testimony of witnesses, or rather, former prisoners who survived. The testimonies of the guards, overseers of the camp. I must say that the Germans, or rather, the Nazis did it economically enough. The prisoners themselves were involved in the internal security of the prisoners.

“Do you specifically emphasize that it’s not the Germans, but the Nazis?”

- Yes, it is very significant. Not only Germans. Because both in the protection and in the construction of the camp, since it was on Polish soil, the Poles took part. They were prisoners, they were also overseers, overseers, security guards. Auschwitz in this regard was no exception compared to other concentration camps in Poland.

- How can you estimate the total number of Auschwitz victims?

- According to the data voiced by the prisoners themselves, according to their observations, this is also very approximately, somewhere up to six million. That is, the number of prisoners exterminated at Auschwitz ranges from 2.5-4 to 4-6 million.

- It is known that in Auschwitz monstrous experiments were carried out on living people. How did this happen?

- Nazi doctors conducted experiments on living people in concentration camps. And Auschwitz was one such place. In particular, gynecology professor Karl Klauberg worked there. He conducted experiments on the sterilization of women, and on the infection of various infectious diseases. Experiments on babies. Monstrous experiments were carried out. Then these people were burnt in the crematorium.

• Auschwitz gas chamber
• © ushmm.org

“And then he was also proud of what he was doing?”

- Yes. He seemed to think that he was doing this all in the name of medicine. But actually, all these experiments were carried out mainly for the SS, according to the SS program. According to the program of maximum extermination of the peoples of occupied countries. That is, if the Red Army did not break the ridge of the Nazi beast, then these sinister experiments would be extended to the inhabitants of the territories occupied by the Nazis. An unenviable fate would await them, just physical destruction by various methods.

- How was the work of the women's departments of Auschwitz organized?

- In the women's wards of the camps, overseers, overseers were women. They were employees of the SS, the security division "Dead Head". These sadists staged events such as "sports races" of 700-800 meters with a load, and at the same time beat up women prisoners. There, in Auschwitz, women were killed not only in crematoriums. A pit with a diameter of about 60 meters and a depth of two meters was dug. Their corpses were burned there.

- How were these crimes investigated?

- It should be noted the role of the Smersh counterintelligence agencies, in general the security agencies that were specifically engaged in the search for Nazi criminals. As one of the categories in the reports, there were leaders and employees of concentration camps. They were searched carefully. Among these people were these German criminals. They were sentenced to death.

- How did the fate of the Nazi criminals related to concentration camps develop in general?

- There were several mass processes during which they were sentenced to death. Since 1947, in my opinion, a moratorium on the death penalty was introduced. Therefore, some later received not capital punishment, but a maximum term of 25 years in prison. In 1955, after the visit of German Chancellor Konrad Adenauer, most of the German prisoners of war went home. In 1956, the latter left. In particular, these were the Wehrmacht generals and scouts. Among them was Karl Klauberg, about whom we spoke, he was transferred to the government of Germany. Subsequently, he was convicted by the German government and died in prison in Kiel.

- The prisoners themselves were involved in the work of the overseers. How did it happen?

- Nazi leaders, as a rule, were chosen from the criminal element. They tried, so to speak, to work out ... And they were distinguished by the greatest atrocities, because they sought to curry favor. For their “work”, if it can be called work, they received two marks a day and an extra ration. The security guard received about 20 marks. For example, they “had fun” like this: for example, they shot prisoners under the pretext of escaping. So they increased their monetary satisfaction.

- Can I elaborate on any of these criminals?

- For example, Alexander Shkipik, a Pole. He was a senior unit in the Auschwitz concentration camp. He took an active part in bullying, beating of prisoners and bringing them to death.

• Soviet doctors help a child released from Auschwitz
• © Newsreel frame / ushmm.org

- Such criminals somehow tried to avoid responsibility?

- Firstly, when Auschwitz was liberated, some of the overseers changed into prison uniforms. The work of military counterintelligence agencies was to conduct certain search actions. And among those who tried to pass themselves off as prisoners of the camps, guards were often identified, these senior blocks and others. The evidence was from prisoners. And one of the tasks of counterintelligence was to capture documentary materials from these camps. Thus the investigation was conducted.

“How can one explain the actions of these people?”

- Speaking of Alexander Skipik, he even took part in Polish underground organizations.

- He tried to justify himself before the investigation?

- Well, yes, he seemed to merit that he was a member of Polish underground organizations, and only then he was arrested by the German security service and ended up in a concentration camp. And there he was already justifying himself for wanting to save his life. And in order to save his life, he had to curry favor with the Nazis.

• SS members at Auschwitz
• © ushmm.org

- It's been 75 years. How different are our views on history, in Russia and in Poland?

- In addition to Auschwitz, in the territory of Poland the Red Army liberated both Majdanek and a number of other concentration camps. They say that this is all supposedly done by American troops. And they are trying, as it were, to “forget” that the Red Army did it. They are trying to level her role.

- They even push the thesis that the USSR unleashed a war with Hitler?

- It should be borne in mind that Poland was the first country to sign an agreement with Nazi Germany in 1934. And then, together with her, she took part in the division of Czechoslovakia.

- We were the last to sign an agreement with Germany?

- Yes, the Soviet Union was the last to sign this agreement. Moreover, there is also the role of Poland. When, in 1938, before the Munich agreement, the Red Army was ready to defend Czechoslovakia and create an anti-Nazi bloc in Europe, Poland refused to allow passage through its territory.

How did Polish intelligence view preparations for an attack on its own country? Only in April 1939 did the Poles realize that it was necessary to build defensive structures in the west. And before that, they always looked to the East. Moreover, they looked to the East together with Hitler.

• The artillery howitzer calculation of Lieutenant A. Kuznetsov is fighting near the walls of the Royal Castle in Krakow
• © Max Alpert / RIA News

- Recently, the Polish ambassador to Berlin was still remembered ...

- Our president called the ambassador to Berlin Joseph Lipsky an anti-Semitic pig. And Joseph Beck, Polish Foreign Minister, was bought by Goering. We published documents about this. Moreover, this is from the interrogation protocol of Lieutenant General Alfred Gerstenberg, a military attache in Bucharest. He was before in Warsaw, and then in Bucharest. He was not asked questions, he simply told that Goering, during his hunt, met with Joseph Beck and offered him, so to speak, to work for Germany.

The pay was a check for 300 thousand Reichsmarks. And this is confirmed, by the way, with documents of the foreign intelligence service, several years ago, she also wrote that Joseph Beck, in fact, put Poland under the German ax. Polish historians, representatives of the Polish Academy of Sciences, at one time called Bek a romantic from diplomacy. In fact, it was an alcoholic. And by the way, British historians, too, about Beck speak very impartially.