- Every Friday, 20 Minutes offers a personality to comment on a social phenomenon, in its new weekly meeting "20 Minutes with ...".
- Lola, the daughter of Georges Salines, was killed at Bataclan on November 13, 2015. He wrote a book with Azdyne Amimour, the father of Samy, one of the terrorists who sowed death in the concert hall.
- Published by Robert Laffont, "we have the words left" is a strong book, a real lesson in tolerance and resilience.
Both were 28 years old. Georges Salines' daughter Lola was killed on November 13 while attending the Eagles of Death Metal concert at Bataclan. Azdyne Amimour's son, Samy, is one of the three terrorists who massacred 90 people that night in the Paris concert hall before being neutralized by the police.
Four years later, when everything should oppose them, these two men bruised by the loss of their child decided to write, with the help of the researcher Sébastien Boussois, Il nous encore les mots , published this Thursday by Robert Laffont editions . A poignant book, a real lesson in tolerance and resilience. 20 Minutes met them on Wednesday in a cafe in the 12th arrondissement of Paris.
How did you meet each-other ?
Georges Salines: In February 2017, Azdyne contacted me when I was president of the association “13 eleven 15 Fraternité et truth”, an association of victims. In his email, he explained to me that he was the father of Samy Amimour and that he wanted to meet me because he considered himself in a certain way as a victim. I was a little surprised. But I was not shocked by his approach, I had already met families of jihadists, especially mothers of young people who left for Syria. They too felt victimized because they had lost their children twice: the first time when they went to do jihad, the second time when they died.
Azdyne Amimour: I had seen Georges on TV and read articles in which he was interviewed. I was curious to meet him. I wanted to explain things to her, show her that I was angry, that I condemned these violent acts. I emailed her and then waited anxiously for her response. We made an appointment in a cafe near the Place de la Bastille. We talked and it went very well.
Georges Salines: Azdyne told me her story. I was impressed by his account, by the efforts he had made to try to bring Samy to reason. He went to Syria to find him but unfortunately he failed to bring him back to France.
How did you get the idea to write this book together?
Azdyne Amimour: I attended meetings of relatives of jihadists at the time and at the end of one of them, Sébastien Boussois, a researcher, came to speak to me. He told me that he was interested in writing an interview book with me. However, I already had a book project on this event. But when I got home, I thought about it and thought it would be interesting to do this book with Georges. So I called him ...
And you immediately accepted? Why ?
Georges Salines: I immediately thought it was a very good idea because it allowed me to go further in my knowledge of the story of Samy Amimour. For a long time I have been trying to understand the mechanics of the making of terrorists in order to try to stop this infernal machine. For that, you have to get to the bottom of the subject.
“By showing that I could speak with Azdyne Amimour, I wanted to send a strong signal, to show that one should not make amalgam between the Moslems and the fundamentalists, the extremists, the terrorists. Not everyone is guilty, you can be the father of a terrorist and not share your ideas. Parents are not necessarily responsible for the crimes of their children. "
How did you work on this project?
Georges Salines: We worked on the premises of the editor, Robert Laffont. It is not a trivial place for me since my daughter, Lola, was a publisher of children's books and she had her office there… We met there a dozen times. In the book, we talk about our childhood, our family journey, our children, Lola and Samy. We looked a lot at his son, his education, his adolescence. We tried to understand why he suddenly became interested in the religion of his parents which he started to practice in an extreme way, why he went to Syria and why he became a terrorist. I evoke some tracks in the book but that remains a little mysterious.
We are also talking about November 13, how we experienced the events, what we did afterwards. We end the book with two letters written to our respective children: I am addressing Samy and Azdyne has written a letter to Lola.
What did the members of the association "13 eleven 15 Fraternity and truth" think when they learned that you were writing a book with Samy Amimour's father?
Georges Salines: Whether it is within the association, my family or my loved ones, some have told me that they did not feel ready to take such a step. But I only had positive reactions in this circle. Same on social networks.
Obviously, some do not understand my approach, but I totally reject the accusation of naivety or complacency that is brought to me. I think that jihadist organizations must be fought militarily, in the Middle East or in the Sahel. The fall of the Islamic State was a good thing and it is absolutely essential to avoid the re-establishment of a jihadist state. Police action in France and in Europe is also essential.
But I also think that to fight terrorism, it is necessary to open a dialogue, to go to meet different audiences, Muslims, students ... By doing this, I think I am more effective than those who are insulting or writing furious letters to the mail of readers of a far-right newspaper. It is useless, it is even counter productive.
Do the victims or their loved ones understand your approach, Azdyne?
Azdyne Amimour: Absolutely. I have the impression that the parents of victims and the survivors are like me, they want to understand, to be informed. I consider that I am also a victim, just like my son who was manipulated. It can happen to anyone.
What have you learned from each other?
Azdyne Amimour: We discovered that we had things in common: music, the Mediterranean ... We both lived in Egypt, were in our youth sympathizers of the Communist Party. We differ on certain subjects: I am a practicing believer and Georges is an atheist, I smoke and he does not smoke! The main thing is that we agree on this event. We have the same vision and the same understanding of things. I hope that from this evil will be good, that it can bring something positive. It was really a chance to meet Georges.
Georges Salines: Azdyne is the complete opposite of a fundamentalist. He has a certain intellectual curiosity, an ability to question his previous beliefs and to listen to what others are saying. Now, I think I'm a bit like that too. Azdyne and I have a friendly relationship, that's for sure. On the book, it is written: "a lesson of resilience and tolerance". What is intolerable is violence and intolerance. For the rest, you have to talk to each other.
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"20 seconds of context"
During the interview with the authors, 20 Minutes wanted to take a picture of Georges Salines and Azdyne Amimour, but the latter prefers not to see his face displayed in the press. The photo illustrating the article, on which they appear from the back, was provided by the publishing house.
- Society
- Books
- Terrorist attacks in Paris
- Samy Amimour
- Bataclan
- Terrorism